Ron Tonkin Mazda in Portland, OR

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Ron Tonkin Mazda

Dealer Info:

Phone(s):(503) 258-3560
Address:750 SE 122nd Ave, Portland, OR, 97233

Reviews on Ron Tonkin Mazda

T R. | 2014-11-09

SOOO shady. Saw a used Mazda CX-7 on their website that is very clearly advertised as "Mazda Certified Pre-owned". Get through the whole buying process, signing papers and everything and then asked to sign a paper that says it's being sold with no warranty. I object and says it factory certified and quote the terms from the website (12mo/12,000 miles limited and 7ys/100,000 miles limited powertrain), only to be told that it's not certified at all!!! WHAT?!? I mentioned multiple times throughout the buying process that the certification was something that was a big deciding factor for me and NO ONE EVER mentioned that it wasn't certified. Seems everyone from the salesmen to the managers, to the finance department is comfortable outright lying to their customers just to get a sale.

When I called the next day to get clarification about the website ad the sales manager (Shawn Clancy) said that whenever a used car comes in that fits the parameters of certification, it goes up on the website as certified whether it is or not!!! That's so freaking SHADY!

I will NEVER deal with Tonkin again! Everyone we dealt with was deceptive from start to finish

Trista F. | 2014-11-03

I'd like to give them 0 stars.....

I will never try and purchase a car from them again. I purchased my first car from Ron Tonkin (toyota) in 2010. My second car I purchased in 2012, from Ron Tonkin (Mazda) my third & fourth car in 2013 (Toyota) and wanted to purchase another car from them about a week ago.

Called in (because I live 5 hours away- which I have always had to travel from 5+ hours to buy a car) told them I was interested in a used Mazda CX-5, worked out a payment plan that would fit my budget and then ran my credit because I was ready to buy the car (this all happened in 1 day, within 2-3hrs).

I waited for a call back from the sales rep (Zach) and had to call him twice!
When he finally called me back, it was from his personal number telling me that they had a great car on the lot that he thought I might want to take a look at..... I said wait, I just had you run my credit for the 2013 Mazda CX5.... I wanted that car. Im ready to sign papers and buy it.

Sorry he told me, the car is spoken for and unfortunately I can't get you into that car. .......


If you knew someone was already on track to buy this car.... why in the heck would you take me through all of the steps of trying to get me approved?

Its not my fault the staff has poor communication skills. FIX IT!

I'm beyond pissed that a company would have the audacity to do what they did, especially since i've purchased so many cars through ron tonkin already.

4 different people called me to give me the run around and all 4 had different stories.

I told the last one I'd never do business with them EVER AGAIN!

Then someone called me this morning, asking if he could get me into a car. REALLY?


If you are going to purchase i'd go with ron tonkin toyota. they at least admit when they are in the wrong and fix the issue, instead of giving numerous excuses.

Derek N. | 2014-10-04

Horrible customer service. Came here looking to lease a new Mazda 3 sedan. Salesman John tricked me into signing a lease contract. Told him I am still shopping around and not sure if I have enough down payment. He said there's only 1 red sedan left and I can put it on hold by giving him a check for down payment that they will hold and sign some finance papers. One of my buddy that came with me asked if when we go home and decide we can't come up with the money, can we cancel after signing the papers (which wasn't explained to us at all). John said, and I quote "as long as we don't have your money and you don't have our car, there is no deal going through." So I signed the papers, then 2 days later I realized I cannot make the down payment at this time, so I called John back and he lied saying he never made a statement about being about to cancel the papers and that it's legally binding and it is considered sold. He let me talked to his manager Reza, who went off on me (talked over me and won't give me a chance to speak) saying basically it's my words against his salesman, that I can lawyer up if I want to, and he will cash the contract. This type of customer service is unacceptable. Basically they all called me a liar, and they will say whatever they want to make a sell. And what kind of manager yells at a customer? Please take your business elsewhere if you want to be treated right as a customer.

Bruce W. | 2014-08-28

I was pleasantly surprised by my experience with Ton Tonkin Mazda. I bought a used Acura which they had the perfect model, year and price. Otherwise they might not have been my first choice to look for a car. After this experience I will look to them in the future. My salesman Leon was excellent, polite, non pushy and helpful. I made an appointment to see him and I arrived late and he still was there waiting for me with the car ready for a test drive. When it came time to go to the finance office to sign papers, my dread of buying a car. Again a polite, non pushy, show me some options and get on with signing the paperwork. From the time I got to the dealership and left they had managed to lower the interest rate on my loan .5% without any work on my end. Then a week later I got a phone call that they had changed lending institutions and were able to lower my rate another .5%. My plates arrived via UPS a couple days early and everything promised has been delivered. I waited three weeks to write this to make sure that everything promised was delivered. It has and then some.

Glaucia M. | 2014-08-24

No stars for this place. Yelp just makes us rate it, but I wish I could give it no stars at all. The dealer lied to us about pricing and bashed Alan Web Mazda in Vancouver who was offering us a killer deal on the 2014 Mazda 5, saying that they were "famous" for tricking people into their car dealership and then changing the pricing. Well, guess who changed the pricing and tried to trick us? Ron Tonkin Mazda. They said they were confused. No confusion, they were just trying to get us into their dealership, just as they said that Alan Web Mazda would have done it. Now, you can only imagine what they would have done if we went into their place to purchase the car. They were so out of integrity. End of the story, we ended up going to Alan Web Mazda and we got the best deal with the best customer service. Read my review at Alan Web Mazda.
Now, Ron Tonkin Mazda, you don't do business like that. People are not stupid and more so, you don't talk badly about a competitor like you did.

Jeffry H. | 2014-08-10

My wife and I went to Tonkin Mazda/Toyota to look at a various used SUV's that they had in stock and were similar to what we were looking for. Initially we had a couple guys from the Toyota side try to help, but while wandering around we found ourselves looking at stock from Mazda. Ray came up to us to inform that he would have to deal with us on these particular vehicles so we had him show us a used CX7. While dealing with Ray, a self-proclaimed Sr. salesman, he appeared helpful and was very polite. He claimed to know the individual who had traded in this specific vehicle, but was unable to provide us with much detail when asked.

As I started the car it made an odd sound; something I'd not encountered in the many years of being a car guy. Ray almost immediately stated that the noise I was hearing was because the motor was "high-compression" and it was normal for that type of motor to make that noise upon start-up. Well, again... I'm a car guy and so I asked what specifically the motor was doing as a "high-compression" motor that made that odd noise.. He didn't know, but claimed that he would find out for me; that never happened.
At the completion of this lack-luster, (as far as power),  vehicle I questioned Ray as to why the vehicle had so many miles on a newer car and why it smelled so much like a wet dog inside, (since he knew the guy, right?) Ray first said he didn't know then claimed the guy drove to and from the west side daily and then couldn't answer me regarding the strong animal odor.

When put on the spot Ray eventually said that he could get me a brand new Mazda for almost the exact price as the one we just drove; that he wanted to work for me and with me to make us happy and if I would give him some time he would show me. Ray even handed me the classic "I'm not making any money on this deal" " I want you as a customer".. When I  mentioned "dealer hold-back" he looked shocked and went silent.

Long story short we drove a brand new Mazda with a sticker price of a lithe more than 26,000. The motor, having even more power than the one previous didn't make the odd sound at all? I clearly explained to Ray that I was a 'car guy' and that I'd been around the block enough times that I wanted to make it clear that I wouldn't put up with any games and that I wasn't in a hurry, especially to purchase a new car vs a quality used. I even told him to bring the best deal as he had promised and that he should do it the first time because we wouldn't do the back and forth game with the 'manager'.

When we finally went in to sit down with Ray he set down a couple of pieces of paper with lots of information, stock numbers, various payment plans and monthly payment amounts, etc. He began talking about a monthly payment in the area of $450 and that in other places we would have to "negotiate for 8 hours" for this deal, etc.. He had an amount of $1,600 or so with "discount" hand written next to it as if he had given us $1,600 off the price of the new vehicle. He seemed to mumble varied information in a quick pace, but quiet tone as I told him to stop giving the payment amount and tell me what the cost of the vehicle was.

After several time he pointed to one of the two sheets. I asked again what the dealer invoice cost was and he pointed at some stock numbers. Finally I stopped the whole damn thing and said "no, show me the dealer invoice amount" and he pointed at an amount of $26,000... almost exactly what the dealer sticker amount showed on the car itself? So he increased the cost of the car by $1,600 so he could claim he had discounted it?
Point blank I looked at him and said "this is unacceptable"; he dropped his shoulders and gaze and quietly said, "ok, have a nice day"

This was my third and last questionable contact with Tonkin regarding cheap tactics, low-balling a trade in amount, claiming a specific vehicle wasn't available in the metro-area so I would buy one from the lot only to find that mysterious nonexistent vehicle was found... exactly where it was supposed to be.. I know it's buyer beware and that as a customer I need to pay attention, but any place that is willing to be as underhanded and deceptive as this place.. well, I've learned my lesson and will never knowingly step on a lot owned by this company again.

Emily A. | 2014-08-10

Earlier I had mentioned a glitch in getting our car shipped to us. Shawn felt bad about the delay and asked if he could add any accessories to make up for it. We chose a couple and were satisfied. Shawn suggested a few more that would look good on our car. We weren't sure, so he said to think about it and let him know when we come in for the first oil change. We decided we wanted to add the accessories, so when we called to set up the oil change we asked about them. Since it had been months, we figured they had forgotten about it and we would be out of luck. No such thing, they remembered and hooked us up and had our car done in record time. This place really does understand great service!!!

Lisa K. | 2014-06-23

This review is for the Mazda service department.   My super trusty and solid 95 Protege had been making some pretty alarming noises for quite some time.  I took it to the Mazda dealer and was quoted 1200 bucks for a pretty burly repair.  I was trepidatious to spend that much on a car that isn't worth that, but in reality, it is pretty priceless to me to own a car and not have to pay much for repairs or anything for payments so I went for it. The water pump needed replacing as well as belts, housings, and a pesky oil leak was fixed as well.  During the 4-day repair, I was provided a loaner for free and had good communication w/ Mike Van Cleve and team - overall I'm very impressed with the repair and the way my car is running again - like new! thanks guys!

Zach B. | 2014-03-29

Great buying experience. Got a great trade in for my car and came out with a pre owned Mazda3 for well under the carfax quote. Will do business here again.

Ashley d. | 2014-03-14

This review is for the service department. We purchased our Mazda here two year ago, and when I began taking my car in for routine maintenance I was not impressed. I began taking my car elsewhere. This week, I needed a part that would be quicker to get through the dealer, so I ventured back for maintenance. It was a total 180'. The lady at the service desk was personable and helpful. They gave me a ticket for a free car wash. When I returned to my car after the service, my children's car seats each had teddy bears in them! On my way home, I received a call that they had forgotten to install my new wiper blades. When I told them I was clear across town already, and couldn't come back right away, they offered to drive to my house to install them! BTW, my house is on the opposite side of town and in no way convenient to the dealership. I might expect such over-the-top service at a luxury dealership, but I've never experienced anything like that from a more utilitarian brand. Really, really impressed!

Amy L. | 2014-03-11

Buying a car here takes 5 hours. Most of the experience is spend waiting:

-for them to stop trying to sell me a car I don't want and give me the car I asked for that they promised they had
-the car salesman to stop the BS on other cars I said I don't want
-waiting on the manager to 'save my day' by giving me a 'great' deal
-waiting to process the paperwork
-waiting for another saleman to BS and try sell me warranty because my brand new car is sure to break in the next 3 years since they have no confidence in the reliability of the Mazda brand.
-wait over an hour for them to drive the car over since they had to wash and vacuum a brand new car. I didn't know new cars arrive dirty.

After I bought the car they forgot to give me my temp license permit I had to make a return trip to get it. By the end of this ordeal I was extremely frustrated and ready to go home without a deal.

Getting your car oil changed and tires rotated here takes 2 hours. After I got my oil changed I had to take my car back immediately because they forgot to reset the tire pressure warning light... enough said, I spend enough time here already.

Ryan E. | 2013-09-16

No bueno. These guys are classic, sleazy car guys - sort of what you'd expect from unsavory used car guys, but alas, they hide under the banner of Tonkin (supposedly respectable) and Mazda (great car maker). Oh, I bought a Mazda, but from Alan Webb where they were courteous, didn't play games, and gave a great price. The fools at Tonkin seem to love the BS gamesmanship that's parodied in Internet memes. Save time, money, and grief by going anywhere else.

Megan J. | 2013-08-22

I've had four dealer experiences in my life so far and this was the best. The others all ended badly...As in, the cars I bought literally broke down within a week of purchase which resulted in me using strong language.

At Ron Tonkin Mazda I went in with the Internet quote for the exact model I wanted. They honored it. No gimmicks and no condescending attitudes here. Cody Kuhns was great and never once made me feel obligated to purchase the vehicle.

Overall, if I'm living in Portland the next time I'm ready for a new vehicle, I will be coming here.

I purchased a Mazda CX-5 Sport in Sky Blue and I love it.

Djamil L. | 2013-07-28

Even though I didn't end up purchasing at Ron Tonkin, the Internet experience was really amazing. I dealt with Kathy Melchiorre and she was very detailed on providing all the informations I requested. She even went through the hassle of providing various combinations that I was interested in.
Unfortunately my experience with Ron Tonkin didn't go through all the way but the start was very positive and if you ever find yourself doubting whether to request a quote with them or not, just do it! They are super friendly.

Rebecca O. | 2013-06-17

I purchased my Mazda 3 from this dealership last year and the experience was great.  We were able to do the majority of the negotiating on line so when we arrived at the dealership the process was painless.  We went from test drive to signatures in less than an hour.

More recently I went in for the first oil change and tire rotation which was complimentary since I purchased the car from their dealership.  Friendly staff and the new remodel looks great.

Janna P. | 2013-01-21

This review is about an experience I had while going to test drive cars. I started out on the internet, found a nice Mazda2 that I wanted to test drive, but I was pricing several different options from several dealers, so it definitely wasn't my last stop of the day.

Recently I sold my car, hence the shopping for a new car. I spoke with Kathy on the phone and mentioned that I'm shopping around, and I'd like to test drive the car but have no way to get there to do so. She said no problem, and sent her "associate" to get me the next day. I test drove the car, liked it well enough, but was having troubles getting the insurance payments to fit in my budget with the car. (I already had the financing worked out separately, thank god). As soon as I told the man (Jay Jordan was the "associate" I worked with) that I didn't intend to buy the car on the spot and needed to do some work to get insurance quotes, he immediately told me that he had no intention of driving me home. Of course, he didn't mention that before coming to get me, so I didn't have any cash for a bus, taxi, or the Max. So I walked more than 8 miles home to Clackamas, towing my expensive laptop through shady parts of Gresham. With a bum leg, that made it a more than 5 hour walk back, over Mt. Scott. What can I say, other than NEVER EVER EVER GIVE YOUR BUSINESS TO THESE PEOPLE. They put me in danger, and there's absolutely no way I can in good conscience ever go back to that location again, much less even stomach the thought of purchasing a Mazda.

Sean L. | 2012-11-28

Never patronize this business... EVER!

I went here in September for some service. I figured, they are a Mazda service center, who would know Mazdas better than they? I had a funky noise coming somewhere from my front end. They charged me to diagnose the problem. Their tech drove my car. They told me what the problem was. I got it fixed (went to a different shop, they didn't have the parts in stock and I was only passing through town at the time). It did not fix my issue. Fast forward to November. I'm back in town and I need new brakes. I hit up Brake Team. They promptly found the problem (bad wheel hub bearing). I didn't even tell them there WAS a problem. Now, wheel hub bearings make a typical sound when they're busted. They usually sound like an airplane taking off. Mine didn't, so I was clueless and figured the fools at Mazda would have several clues. Not true. They were just guessing. So I pissed some money at them for the diagnosis, then a bunch of money for parts and labor all because their tech wasn't good or was too lazy to properly diagnose the issue, or they figured they've already got my money so who cares what the hell they tell me. Bottom line is I sunk over $500 into my car for a problem that did not exist. They could have just not charged me too, and tell me they are as clueless as I am!

I went back to them and all they offered me was to fix the problem for $100 less than the Brake Team quote. They wouldn't even LOOK at my receipts. I knew instantly that this is an unsavory business. Anyway, I wanted them to make it right and not give me a discount. Am I right? Yes I am (a savory business would be EMBARRASSED and agree to fix it, period). Anyway, I bought the wheel hub bearing for less than $40 at Napa and paid another shop $150 to do the labor (even cheaper than either this rip off establishment or the skilled techs over at Brake Team). Anyway, the problem is now gone! No funky noise.

Trust me, unless your Mazda is still under warranty (in which case, find a DIFFERENT Mazda service center) do not patronize this place. They are not good at mechanical service and they are not good at customer service. AND, they owe me several hundred dollars worth of compensation (perhaps they should offer to pay the service bill the next time I have a major repair--at a shop that they do not run because their technicians are bad).

Ethan D. | 2012-11-27

I don't know if Yelp just seems to attract negative reviewers more than positive ones when discussing car dealerships, but I have nothing bad to say about Tonkin Mazda Service department. In fact, they couldn't be nicer and more efficient. The service manager girl I always deal with is so nice and accommodating. And I get the vibe from her that if there ever was a problem she'd rectify the situation immediately.

Like I said, maybe people just like to complain about car dealerships more than applaud them, but I applaud Tonkin's Mazda service team. They definitely do fine by me.

Pete H. | 2012-08-06

Stay far far away from the service department here.

I took a car (that I BOUGHT there) for a pretty simple service.

1. It took them 2x as long as they told me I'd be waiting, then

2. I got home and realized the fluids were not topped the way they were supposed to be. WHICH IS WHAT I PAY THEM FOR.

3. I call and speak to manager- no apology,  but he says come in and they'll take care of it immediately.

4. Lies right to my face about why one isn't topped off. Contradicting evidence is written down right in front of him, that HIS department put together.

5. No apology now, either.

6. I get home and check levels again- THEY ARE STILL NOT FULL. In fact- they coolant is well below the "LOW" mark.


I don't know if this service department thinks this is some kind of game, but this is extremely unprofessional and creating a potentially hazardous condition to my car and my driving ability.

I will not return.

Luke B. | 2012-01-27

Took car in for service and told them my window switch was not working.

So they charged me $50 to tell me my window switch isn't working and that the part is $225.

Really guys?  $50 to tell me what I told them?  It's a switch - they are on or they are off.

Abbie H. | 2011-09-30

I work around the corner from here so I sometimes just decide to drop in and have some work done on my Mazda (detailing, oil change, tire rotation, etc). They are almost always happy to squeeze me in and are done with my car within an hour or two.

The woman at the service desk is extremely friendly and helpful and calls right away when the car is ready. I never have any extra charges or BS stuff going on, and my car seems to like it there too. I would recommend service work here.

Christina B. | 2011-07-20

The salesman we worked with was good, but if you don't like having your time wasted--I would SERIOUSLY recommend going elsewhere.

And it's mostly because of the financing people, as everyone else has mentioned. They pull some mean bait and switches in there. It's unbelievable. I purchased my car on Saturday (spent 4 hours in the dealership, going back and forth with the financing guy). I just received a phone call that I need to come back to the dealership because there's a problem with the financing!

How can they get you in a car and then decide the financing won't work? Shouldn't this have been checked out BEFORE I left with the car? I'll add an update after I go in, because they better rectify this situation. If not, they will have one extremely irate customer. And I'll be going on a tirade, believe me.

Of course if they make good, I'll update my review to reflect that. for now they can have the 1 star review that they deserve. This place is sickening.

Jessica H. | 2011-04-26

I was told that the service on my car be ready at 1:30 pm. At  2 pm I checked back and was told 10-15 minutes. Check back at 2:30, again another 10-15 minutes. Finally got my car at 2:45. It was filthy.  Spent almost $600, took over an hour longer to repair AND to top it car wash? Disappointing.

Sandra W. | 2011-04-24

This was my second car-buying experience from a Tonkin dealership. The first one (a 2-car buy) happened at the Acura dealership on the west side in 2009 (can't remember where they are, oh well). Those transactions went so smoothly that I was comfortable going to the Tonkin Mazda dealership in East Portland.

My daughter pretty much knew what she wanted and I pretty much knew I would be co-signing for her, so there weren't any surprises in the financing experience. The interest rate, price of the car, and payment we walked out with was exactly what we anticipated and what she budgeted for...and there was none of that Silly Finance Shell Game involved. Very straightforward deal with upfront guys, but maybe that's because I don't look like I am easily snookered. It was a good opportunity to teach my daughter about how a dealer will manipulate the price or the interest rate, and I guess because I talked about this openly with her, they didn't try any of that with us.

There was only two things that I didn't like. First, the car she chose had a dead battery. Let me tell you, I learned firsthand that day how dependent these new cars are on their batteries and their computers. Even after the battery charged for 10 minutes, my daughter almost didn't buy the car when she couldn't get the wheel to turn. Second, there was a scratch on the dash, which the salesman said was dirt, but it did not clean off or buff out. I should have used that scratch as a negotiating tool. Oh well.

Overall, a good experience. If you don't have a good experience, perhaps you need to learn how to buy a car. Do your research ahead of time, go in with a budget, offer less than your budget, negotiate to a middle ground, and then hold your ground. And whatever you do, don't get emotional -- if you find yourself getting anxious or angry, it's because you're emotionally invested in a car. It's a CAR, for Pete's sake!  Did anyone ever teach you that a car ISN'T an investment item?

Carla R. | 2010-09-01

The Internet Sales Associate, Andre was wonderful. I picked out a car I was interested in checking out  from the internet specials. I emailed the dealership and Andre called me back right away (of course!).  We chatted about the car for a few minutes and he emailed me all the specifications and his contact info. He did not pressure me to come in.

I decided to call the next day and told him that I will be coming in a couple of hours if he will be there and if the car was still available AND available at the price I was quoted.  Two hours later, he picked me up from the Max station and handed me the keys to the car.  Andre was personable, friendly, real and not pushy. He didn't seem too attached to selling me a car that day.  It seemed he was working on building more of a long-term relationship rather than a quick sale and I really appreciated that.  

I decided to take the car and that's when I wished that Andre was also the finance guy.  Though this was my first new car purchase, I instinctively knew not to take the first offer.  I kept telling them "no" and suddenly a 12% interest rate suddenly turned into 4% and so on.  I probably could have gotten it lower had I tried ever harder.  

At the end of the day, I got the car at the rate and monthly payments I wanted, but it was like pulling teeth with the finance guy.  

I give Andre 5 stars and the finance guy 1-2.

Ed H. | 2009-10-08

I would give less than 1 star if I could.

This is based on a car purchase in Aug 2008.

I purchased my car over the internet and got a good deal. The online salesman was nice and located the exact car I want and had it ready when I wanted to pick it up.

However, the finance man was an a$$hole. I was told weeks ahead of buying the car that I was pre-approved by Mazda Finance. It turns out I was not approved (dealer lied to me). They sold me the car financed to a no-name bank without my knowledge (I thought it was a Mazda loan until the paperwork came in the mail).

I will never deal with a Token dealer again. Go to Heizog-Meyer in Beaverton. I have all my service there now.

Years before I purchased a car online with Subaru and financed it with Subaru and it was a great experience. Not so with Ron Token Mazda.

Jessica M. | 2009-01-28

I really wish I could give it less than one star...but I will give it one star for the lady who answered the phone.

Ok, so I am in the middle of a divorce, took out some bad loans and such at one time...paid them off but have other credit I contacted credit acceptance through the Ron Tonkin family of dealerships.

The woman on the phone was super nice. She happened to be from my home town and we chatted it up. She got me an appointment with a woman at Ron Tonkin mazda and I went.

The woman I had the appointment with was sick and had to leave early, so this guy helped me. Can you say slimy??  

I work very closely with sales reps and I hate most sales reps (the ones I work with are angels though! ...seriously...I am very lucky) ...but this guy was just above and beyond annoying and creepy.

This was months ago that I went...but my quest has continued for a car loan for myself and I just had to share my story now.

I wish I remembered the guys name...he was nice enough as a human being but the sales environment there was just disgusting... I felt gross...the whole thing was just nasty...

When I left... I went home and took a shower to get the nasty experience off... ugh

So, bad credit... dont bother with Ron Tonkin.

Coral C. | 2007-10-01

Our salesman was very nice, and took us all over town to the different lots to find a car that we liked.  However, when it came time to crunch the numbers, the finance guy was incredibly PUSHY.  We told him we couldn't afford what he came back with...and then he proceeded to make us wait while he crunched numbers again, even though we told him no.  We were really just looking to get an idea, and we told them that, and he still wouldn't let us leave.  He had taken our keys from us to do an appraisal for our trade in, and conveniently kept them.  We had to get up and demand for him to return our keys, he still kept trying to get us better numbers.  I might buy a car from our salesguy, but we'll come prepared with a pre approved loan so I don't have to deal with that schwarmy guy again.  Put me in a bad mood all night.